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Open thread

by EPI Staff on February 12, 2010

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This open thread is your space to use as you like.  We invite you to discuss current and traditional etiquette. Feel free to ask questions of each other and the community moderators here.

{ 5 comments… read them below or add one }

Barista February 12, 2010 at 10:29 am

I work for a small coffee shop and roasterie and in April the owner and his wife, myself and the roaster will all be traveling to a convention out of state. The married couple who own the business recently booked the room. To save money, I assume, they booked a room with 2 queen beds. I am a married woman and my other co-worker, the roaster, is a married man and we naturally feel quite awkward about this second queen bed question. We both agree that sleeping in the same bed is out of the question. I did look into the room to see if there was a pull-out bed and there didn’t seem to be. I also emailed the hotel about cot availability and am waiting to hear back. However, if these two options don’t pan out how can we approach this matter in a way that delicately conveys our discomfort and disapproval?

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Daniel Post Senning February 17, 2010 at 10:30 am

What a difficult situation. I would talk to your employer in an open and candid manner. Tell them that you appreciate that they are thinking of including you on a business trip but that you feel uncomfortable about the accommodations. Let them know what you have already found out. Decide for yourself what solutions you think are fair to suggest so that you are prepared to offer some suggestions of ways to move forward. You might offer to stay home to help save costs until they can afford to invite more staff. You could offer to split the cost for booking an additional room or to look into staying with a friends or family in the area of the conference. Perhaps it would be more fair to draw straws to decide who goes. Good luck and I hope you are able to work something out so everybody can attend. Let us know how it all works out.

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Maximilian February 12, 2010 at 7:13 pm

I just took the “How Do You Work This Life Thing?” quiz.

http://www.emilypost.com/lifething/quiz/results.htm

I’m wondering if it’s just me in thinking that a few of the answers would strike me as being passive aggressive rather than assertive/communicative or polite / appropriate.

The first correct answer referring to one who asks to borrow a cherished item of clothing states: Say, “No. I’m sorry but if something were to happen to it I’d rather it be my fault than anyone else’s. Thanks for understanding.”

My take is that if someone tells me thanks for understanding, when I’ve yet to give them any response or indication that I have understood them the natural feeling is that they’re now being presumptuous and pushy, showing ill will or a cold heart. Not polite. I’d much rather firstly decide whether I’m that materialistic to put clothing items before relationships or whether the relationship was that important to me and if it wasn’t, then stating how much I love that item and would suggest to them a less loved piece or perhaps to go clothes shopping with them at a later time.

Another: 5. You have two roommates and have lived together for one month. The apartment is a disaster.

I’m having a tough time seeing the correct choice of action as to: Discuss ideas with your roommates for what would be realistic and reasonable cleaning strategies.

This kind of hits me as political rhetoric. Aren’t realistic and reasonable relative terms? Phrases that kind of bend and change, varying with every different person viewing them. I’ve lived in a family home similar to being raised by wolves; There was no structure but you had better know your place, or else. They were about as neat as wolves, too. How I managed it was I cleaned up after them happily when I could because despite the fight we put up some people won’t change, Period. But the funny thing is, when I stopped complaining and simply starting cleaning up when I saw a mess – because I liked a clean house. I noticed when we got along, they started to follow suit. Then with them being neat, I noticed them being so, praised them for it and surprisingly they were so even more. Now they live in a mostly clean house. No confrontation or domineering rule imposition required. I know from firsthand experience, trying to control or dictate another’s behavior – no matter how well intended – almost never goes over well unless we really care about them and have shown it to them many times over.

And how about this one: 6. You’re at the gym and have been waiting for an elliptical machine to free up. A very sweaty man wipes his forehead and slows down, he coughs a few times and gets off. You don’t see him coming back with a rag to clean off the machine.

Supposedly the correct answer is to wipe it yourself and then subtly complain to the staff that people aren’t wiping down the machines. What would I do? Understand that the world isn’t as polite as me which I like via the social advantage, Wipe the machine down myself, use it and leave as happily as I entered. Why should I let this one individual ruin my day with this one petty nitpicking absence of mind? God knows what’s happened to him in his life, his wife could be in labor, himself recently fired, and he could be nursing some kind of bug to boot. His life could be in the absolute worst place it has ever been and here I’d be nitpicking him about forgetting to clean off a gym apparatus. Not only that but I wouldn’t have even bothered to mention it to him face to face in a neutral and friendly way. I had to go sick the staff on him. That’s passive aggressive to the umpteenth degree to my mind. If someone has a problem with something I may or may not be doing I’d think myself to appreciate at least being thought enough of and respected enough for them to nurse the relationship however distant between us, on their own, rather than involving a third party and letting them in on my defamation.

Yes, boundaries are important but what I feel is more important still is the intent underneath the relationship. It shouldn’t be “These are the guidelines and you’re going to respect them” but it should be “I care about you as a person to whatever degree, but this particular occurrence is intolerable. What’s your take on it?” And if they understand saying how amazing it is and praising their good qualities. Or if they’re unwilling to change accepting that and taking an appropriate action in kind to ensure your own needs are met, perhaps independently of them and most importantly that there exist no ill will in the goings-on during any portion of your behavior towards and/or with them. My style is this: The most important factor in my life, at any point, is the way I feel. Couple that with an awareness of the effect I’m having on others and I feel that’s the perfect natural compass to etiquette aside from that of blatant pedantry and elitism, such as which of my 50 forks I should eat with first (to which I know I work my way from the outside in per course), or to tear off pieces of my dinner roll rather than biting into it, which might I add to any normal person is a perfectly appropriate way to eat a handheld food item. To me, manners is nurturing social relationships rather than a display of snobbery (I really don’t mean it to sound as harsh as that word does, I apologize) or dictating one’s tastes/desires/selfishness onto others in a cold and indifferent way.

As far as the other post is concerned, I’d call the hotel IN THE MOST LIGHTHEARTED AND AFFABLE MOOD POSSIBLE** and would ensure they’d received the quota of their being two beds required, not one. Then I’d praise their good work and would tell them what I wonderful stay I now expect to have given a staff as wonderful as the employee on the receiver seems to be.

**This is absolutely vital when dealing in professional situations. I don’t mean bouncing off the walls and needing to be liked. I mean a calm, content, openness to express appreciation and ideas about anything common to business or just general human experience. It shows maturity. It implies that you’re seasoned and comfortable in business/client situations to such a point that you recognize people over positions, although you do acknowledge position and take the appropriate actions in regard to them. When I say lighthearted and affable what I really mean is rather openly talkative and expressive, almost as if they and your good self are automatically well acquainted and by default on good speaking terms of positive interaction, in other words that there is care for who they are underneath the usual business formality and pleasantries. Expressing an intent and emitting a pleased/appreciative mood without showing any apprehension or worry or insistence is my secret weapon to almost surely be helped to whatever that intent is, given its reasonability. Try it. It has yet to let me down.

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Melissa June 13, 2011 at 3:05 pm

Q: I just began online dating with a site that matches your profile to profiles with compatible personalities and interests, so I am able to view men with compatible profiles some of whom I’d like to start a conversation with using the sites resources. As a woman, I do not usually initiate contact in a dating situation, however I’m curious if there are different rules for a woman in the online dating world?

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Alicia June 13, 2011 at 3:56 pm

Melissa,
In dating either online or in the real world a woman is equally able to start a conversation with a interesting man. Go ahead and begin a conversation either in real world or online. Online dating is really easy to do this because they have mentioned many interests and hobbies. Make a comment about one “Dear online guy,I see from your profile you are an avid underwater basketweaver. That is a unique and interesting hobby. How did you get started doing underwater basketweaving? – Melissa” However, much more then in real life it is very common for people not to reply to overtures and to not respond or to suddenly stop communicating. Only make the first overture if you are ready for the lack of response or negative response.
Best of luck. I know lots of folks who are very happy with the people they married having met online.

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